Chinese language - How to distinguish between j and q -

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How to distinguish between j and q
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strongneo -

Please help me, I just started learning Chinese, now I am focusing on practising pronunciation. I
hardly differentiate between the initial j and q when listening and don't know how to pronounce
them correctly.



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HashiriKata -

For j, try to say "jeep" (100 times exactly) and for q, say "cheap" (another 100 times).
Afterwards, move to the Chinese words you want to practise that start with j or q and repeat each
for 100 times. Keep doing this for 100 days and let us know how you've got on.

Good luck!










Language Guy -

Cheap? Let's also not forget the difference between "q" and "ch". I find that distinction MUCH
more difficult.










HashiriKata -



Quote:

Let's also not forget the difference between "q" and "ch". I find that distinction MUCH more
difficult

Be a little more communicative, Language Guy. Tell us something about the difference!

(Incidentally, when I say "cheap", I don't simply mean "ch". You have to follow my exact
instruction to discover the depth )

------------------
EDIT:
Language Guy, my post above was due to my misunderstanding of your meaning. I see now that your
"ch" is meant the pinyin "ch" and not the English "ch", is this correct?

If so, once "q" is already mastered, pull the tip of your tongue further back (from your front
teeth) to pronounce words starting with "ch" (curl the tip of your tongue up to touch the roof of
your mouth while producing the sound). The approximate sound in English for the Chinese "ch" is
something like the "ch" in choose, church, charge, etc. The Chinese "zh" is simply a non-aspirated
version of "ch", just as "j" is a non-aspirated version of "q".










againstwind -



Quote:

For j, try to say "jeep" (100 times exactly) and for q, say "cheap" (another 100 times)

Em...Perhaps it can work.

First of all, I wonder if you keb1717 are Japanese or you have learned Japanese. If yes, that will
be easy to explain.

If not, anyway, the most obvious difference between [j] and [q] in Chinese is that [q] is
aspirated and [j] is not.

And the difference between Chinese [q] and English [ch] is, simply speaking, when pronouncing the
former the lip is not protrudent, whereas when pronounceing the latter the lip is protrudent.

As for Chinese [q] and Chinese [ch], can you differentiate them by yourself now?

Here is my recording of Chinese [ji],[qi],[chi].
Any more question on their difference is welcome.

p.s.
Sorry I can't input the font of IPA in this forum.










leosmith -



Quote:

I hardly differentiate between the initial j and q when listening and don't know how to pronounce
them correctly.

Hi strongneo,
Welcome! I'm also a beginner. This site should answer most of your pronunciation questions:
http://www.sinosplice.com/lang/pronunciation/04/



Quote:

For j, try to say "jeep" (100 times exactly) and for q, say "cheap" (another 100 times).
Afterwards, move to the Chinese words you want to practise that start with j or q and repeat each
for 100 times. Keep doing this for 100 days and let us know how you've got on.

HashiriKata-kun, please don't mislead us beginners; we may not understand that you're joking.










HashiriKata -



Quote:

HashiriKata-kun, please don't mislead us beginners; we may not understand that you're joking.

Sorry leosmith, what makes you think that I was joking? Seriously, I do not joke when that could
mislead.

By the way, the "kun" you used after my name is not correct. Where did you learn that usage?










nephridium -

The difference between j and q is that q is an 'affricative' consonant, the other one isn't.
Affricative means that if you say the consonant in front of a candle the flame will move
noticeably from the air puff.

As for the location of the tongue, it's located for both consonants at the same position; try to
make a sound halfway between "ts" (can't think of an English word with this sound) and "tsh" (this
would be the sound in "cheap") or "ds" (as in salads) and "dsh" (as in "jeep") - that should come
close to the correct pronunciations.










Jose -



Quote:

Let's also not forget the difference between "q" and "ch". I find that distinction MUCH more
difficult.

In fact, q and ch can be regarded as two variants (allophones in phonetic jargon) of the same
sound. This is so because they are used with different vowels. In front of all Mandarin vowels
except "i" and "ü", you find "ch" and "zh". These are retroflex consonants, the first one being
aspirated and the second one unaspirated. You also have "c" and "z", which sound more like English
"ts". The distinction between "ch" and "c", and "zh" and "z", is the hallmark of elegant Mandarin
pronunciation. Many, maybe most, people in China, both in the South and the North, are unable to
make the distinction.

Now the imporant thing to bear in mind is that this elegant distinction between "cha" and "ca",
"che" and "ce", and so on completely disappears in front of "i" and "ü". In front of these vowels
you only have "qi" and "qü" (spelt "qu" in pinyin orthography just as a convention). The vowels
"i" and "ü" are high front vowels and they are articulated at a very different position within
the mouth when compared with the rest of the vowels. You can imagine these vowels as somehow
pushing the pronunciation
of the consonant so that the "c"/"ch" pair merges into "q" while the "z"/"zh" pair merges into
"j". Try saying ca and cha, and then c + i and ch + i. You will notice that it is more difficult
to keep the distinction, and if you find articulating a palatal consonant, you're probably getting
it.

Be careful here not to be tricked by the double use of "i" and "u" in pinyin. Some people assume
that "q" and "ch" have distinctive value because of bogus pairs like "chi" - "qi" "chu" - "qu"
"chuan" - "quan", and so on. But all these syllables actually have different vowels. The "i" in
"chi" is the so-called empty rhyme, while the vowel in "qi" is the normal "i" as in "yi" or "bi".
Similarly, the "chu" - "qü" "chuan" - "qüan" pairs look clearly different if we clarify the
spelling by using the actual vowel "ü".

You can see this schematically:

Elegant standard pronunciation:



Code:

Middle and back vowels front vowels

ca ce [...] cu
\
qi 'qü'
/
cha che [...] chu

Widespread non-Beijing pronunciation:


Code:

Middle and back vowels front vowels

ca ce [...] cu qi 'qü'

The same thing happens with "z"/"zh" v. "j", and with "s"/"sh" v. "x". Because of that, the use of
different letters for "j", "q", and "x" is not fundamentally necessary in transcription systems of
Chinese, and systems like Gwoyeu Romatzyh or Wade-Giles do not make this distinction. In pinyin it
is probably a legacy of bopomofo.

This is one of the points about pinyin I don't completely like. A few months ago I wrote a few
criticisms of pinyin in an older thread, where I tried to explain some conventions in pinyin that
I find misleading, and that confused me greatly when I was starting to learn Chinese. I think it
probably took me two years or more to realise that qu was actually pronounced with the lü vowel!










Language Guy -

HashiriKata, I'm glad you go the message of my post.

I'm only a beginner, and although I have training in linguistics and phonetics, I'm still no
expert at the Chinese language.

The best way I would describe the difference between the pinyin sounds 'x' and 'sh', 'j' and 'zh',
'q' and 'ch' is that the formers are shallower, performed at the front of the mouth, while the
latters are formed more near the rear.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.












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Chinese Speaking - Non-Chinese Cantonese speakers - Page 6 -

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
Non-Chinese Cantonese speakers
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floatingmoon -



Quote:

I read somewhere that he has already left TVB.....

Yes, 河國榮 left TVB, that's sad....less chance to see him on tv. But I hope audience get to
see him in other media production in the future.

Am I his fans? um...not really. But he is one of the actor that I like to see in drama.



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wannabeafreak -



Quote:

Gregory Charles Rivers 河國榮

Anyone heard of him? He speak fluent and clear Cantonese, and been involved in many TVB
productions for years.

A while ago, I saw a interview of him. It's interesting to know how he steps into the HK media
career.

Did you even bother to read this thread or just decide to read the last page and decide to post
this?



Quote:

I have a feeling he's gay. He used to be a student at my old school where he studied medicine for
a year. Seeing Leslie Cheung in one occasion in Australia, he decided to go to Hong Kong where his
idol was based. He did and has never gone back since.

What rubbish are you on? He's been married for 20 years. I met both him and his his wife.










Quest -

This is mandarin, but whose daughter is this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2L2eLzRzamI&feature=related
Have you spent more time on Chinese than she's been alive?










huisheng -

First of all, I have nothing against him or gay people. And I think one has issues thinking being
called gay is offensive. I'd offer an apology if Mr Rivers finds what I said offensive though. I
saw his name in the famous UNSW alumni list on Wikipedia. As the information there said he was a
Hong Kong-based actor, I was tempted to learn more about him. Unfortuantly what I got from
googling is pretty much what I said previously. So I assumed he was 40-ish and single. UNSW is one
of the best Unis in the country and people are dying to get into Medicine. Since he gave up his
study and thus a promising career opportunity because of his obsession over Cheung, and supposedly
he was never married, I suspected he was gay. Being gay makes one a minority. Being a minority
makes one different. Being different is worth knowing. This is how my logic went.










LaVandez -

This is the new reality that's creeping up on people who haven't been keeping watch. This is going
to be more and more common and less of a shock to people. I like having these people out there who
are just tearing it up when it comes to the language it's great to aspire to even if you never
reach the top of the mountain.












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Chinese School - 20th Century Chinese Poetry -- a question -

> Chinese Culture > Art and Literature
20th Century Chinese Poetry -- a question
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cui ruide -

I'll be going to Hangzhou in the spring, and I need to decided a 1 on 1 (student and professor)
topic to pursue for a class. I'm a huge fan of Chinese poetry and have already taken a couple
courses in translation dealing with older Chinese lit (Book of Songs to pre-20th), but I've never
really studied 20th Cen. lit. One topic idea I'm mullying over is 20th Cen. Chinese Lit. with an
emphasis on May 4th poets and the contemporary(?) Misty Poets.

Has anyone had any experience with these groups or read much? What do you think of them?



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Lu -

I haven't read that much, but more than most people, I suppose.

Misty poetry (朦胧诗歌) is contemporary (that is, of after the CR), they came up in the 1980s.
I think that they were actually the first contemporary Chinese poets, contemporary Chinese poetry
started with them, and many later poets reacted to them in one way or the other. Some of the Misty
poets are still writing (and Jintian still exists), but as a movement Misty poetry doesn't exist
anymore.

Some poets: 北岛，舒婷，芒克，杨炼，顾城。Bei Dao and Mang Ke had founded 今天, a
magazine for new poetry, in 1978, and that started it off. The poetry was considered 'misty',
because the critics, used to very clear CR poetry, didn't understand it. To a westerner used to
much more obscure poetry, it's actually not so misty.
Here is some info about Bei Dao, and here is another one of his poems.
I tried to find Yang Lian's 'Wild Goose Pagoda' but couldn't find it on the net; anyway, that's a
good poem too (although I'm not sure if it's Misty, strictly speaking).

Personally I like some of the Misty poetry quite a lot. It's very different than Song and Tang
poetry, much more western (modern Chinese poetry was heavily influenced by the west, contemporary
poetry followed that trend).

I hope this is useful for you, if you want to know anything else, just ask.










gato -

Here is a great site with a mega collection of Chinese poetry, including modern.
http://www.poets.cn/xinshi/index.htm

I like 徐志摩 and 戴望舒, both from the pre-1949 period.
http://www.poets.cn/xinshi/xuzhimo.htm
徐志摩诗选

我不知道风

－－－ 我不知道风
是在那一个方向吹
－－－ 我是在梦中，
在梦的轻波里依洄。

我不知道风
是在那一个方向吹
－－－ 我是在梦中，
她的温存，我的迷醉。

我不知道风
是在那一个方向吹
－－－ 我是在梦中，
甜美是梦里的光辉。

我不知道风
是在那一个方向吹
－－我是在梦中，
她的负心，我的伤悲。

我不知道风
是在那一个方向吹
－－－ 我是在梦中，
在梦的悲哀里心碎！

我不知道风
是在那一个方向吹
－－－ 我是在梦中，
黯淡是梦里的光辉！

http://www.poets.cn/xinshi/daiwangshu.htm
戴望舒诗选

http://www.cctv.com/program/dssgsw/2...8/101574.shtml
　　 戴望舒

　　 雨巷

　　撑着油纸伞，独自
　　彷徨在悠长、悠长
　　又寂寥的雨巷
　　我希望逢着
　　一个丁香一样地
　　结着愁怨的姑娘

　　她是有
　　丁香一样的颜色
　　丁香一样的芬芳
　　丁香一样的忧愁
　　在雨中哀怨
　　哀怨又彷徨

　　她彷徨在这寂寥的雨巷
　　撑着油纸伞
　　像我一样
　　像我一样地
　　默默彳亍着
　　冷漠、凄婉、又惆怅

　　她静默地走近
　　走近 又投出
　　叹息一般的眼光
　　她飘过 像梦一般地
　　像梦一般地凄婉迷茫

　　像梦中飘过
　　一支丁香地
　　我身旁飘过这女郎
　　她静默地远了 远了
　　到了颓圮的篱墙
　　走尽这雨巷

　　在雨的哀曲里
　　消了她的颜色
　　散了她的芬芳
　　消散了 甚至她的
　　叹息般的眼光
　　丁香般的惆怅

　　撑着油纸伞 独自
　　彷徨在悠长 悠长
　　又寂寥的雨巷
　　我希望飘过
　　一个丁香一样地
　　结着愁怨的姑娘










hkkevin -

I don't know modern poetry, but it has become a very hot topic in China in recent days, after a
new stream of poetry is released. A poet, Zhao Li-hua released her latest poems , which are
written almost like a daily conversation. "Huh, Can we call it a poem?" Most said.

It's not surprised to see her new try, but it really surprised me that such topic can catch a wide
attention from the newspaper in China.

see her blog: http://blog.sina.com.cn/m/zhaolihua










natalie -

Good morning to you all,

Can you please translate these poems into English? I am so curious...
Poetry is my oxygen...
I am only beginning my 2nd year of Chinese studies but so eager to read Chinese poetry...

So if you may translate...
I'll embrace you from afar!

This is the Jewish new year so I'll wish you all a happy new year!

~ Natalie ~










gato -

At your request, here is a rough translation of the first one by Xu Zhimo.

I Don't Know the Wind (我不知道风)
Xu Zhimo (徐志摩, 1897-1931)

--- I don't know the wind
Is blowing in which way
--- I am lost in my dreams
Riding the waves of my dreams.

I don't know the wind
Is blowing in which way
I am lost in my dreams
Her warmth, my intoxication.

I don't know the wind
Is blowing in which way
I am lost in my dreams
Sweetness the light of my dreams.

I don't know the wind
Is blowing in which way
I am lost in my dreams
Her indifference, my sorrow.

I don't know the wind
Is blowing in which way
I am lost in my dreams
Heartbroken in the sadness of my dreams.

I don't know the wind
Is blowing in which way
I am lost in my dreams
Darkness the light of my dreams.










gato -

The second one by Dai Wangshu is much harder to translate because it's much more dependent on its
rhyme. Here's a very rough attempt.

Rainy Lane (雨巷)
Dai Wangshu (戴望舒, 1905-1950)

Holding an oilpaper umbrella, alone
Wandering through a long
And lonesome rainy lane,
I hope to meet
A clove-like girl
Bearing of melancholy.

She has
The same color as a clove
The same smell as a clove
The same worries as a clove
Forlorn in the rain
Forlorn and unsure.

She wanders through this lonesome lane
Holding an oilpaper umbrella
Like me
Like me
Walking silently
Cold, sad, and melancholy

She quietly walks near
Walks near, and gives
A glance like a sigh
She floats by
Like a dream
Sad and mysterious like a dream.

Like a clove
In a dream,
The lady floats past me.
She quietly gets further and further
To the collapsed bamboo wall
To the end of the rainy lane.

In the requiem of the rain,
Her color is washed off
Her smell dissipated,
Even her
Sigh-like glance is lost.

Holding an oilpaper umbrella, alone
Wandering through a long
And lonesome rainy lane.
I hope to float by
A clove-like girl
Bearing of melancholy.










natalie -

Thank you so much!

so moving...
Will love ever be sadness free?...










HashiriKata -



Quote:

Will love ever be sadness free?...

But then you may feel love is not quite love without sadness... ()










gato -

Oh, it's been a year. How was your of Chinese studying?












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Learning Mandarin - Popup Chinese Translator for Firefox!! -

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
Popup Chinese Translator for Firefox!!
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xentropic -

Finally theres a plugin for Firefox that will allow you to mouse over chinese and get a popup that
gives you the pinyin pronuncation and english meaning. I modded the plugin Rikai-chan which did
the same to Japanese along with adding the ability to export the word you highlighted to an
external file you can use to add to a flashcard list or something like that. It searches the
CEDICT dictionary file which doesnt seem to have anywhere near the entries the japanese EDICT has,
but its better than nothing. If all else fails , you can at least get a character by character
reading. In the options you menu you can choose Simplified or Traditional which will change what
gets displayed in the popup AND what version will be exported (if you choose both it will export
both but display simplified in teh popup). Currently the export format is in GB2312 so it might
looked scrambled in notepad or something but will read correctly when you import your list into a
flashcard program that reads that encoding. Later I will add more features and fix little things
here and there (I modded it in 5 hours) but it is way more than usable now so I figured it release
it rather than using just for myself. Enjoy!! Comments/Ideas welcome.

peraperakun at gmail.com
get it here: https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/3349/



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necroflux -

Trying it out right now, I'll let you know how it goes.










gato -

Why does it say "please install a dictionary for peraperakun" when I try to toggle it on?










xentropic -

do you have rikaichan installed also, apparently theres a resource confict with that ?? ill fix it
in a few days, it worked fine on 4 computers that i tested it on










gato -

No, never had rikaichan installed. I do have moji installed, however.










necroflux -

Got the same message here, I don't have any dictionaries installed to my knowledge.










xentropic -

yea your right there was something in the code looking for a dictionary to be installed....fixed
that problem, sorry about that, i double checked it this time should work. so please uninstall it
and try the new one. v0.1.1

ive been using it for awhile and so has my friend and finally decided to put it up for people so
there might be a few problems at the beginning on other peoples machines...dunno










doumeizhen -

can you give us the new link, please?










xentropic -

i uploaded the fix like over 12 hours ago but its waiting "approval" from mozilla which is just an
automated script that checks the files validity, once thats over it will be on the same site and
appear as ver 0.1.1 dunno when that will ever happen, but when it does you can download it from
the same site










atitarev -

Yes, give us the new download link, please!

I am an active user of Rikaichan. Hanzi Bar is similar but Rikaichan has a better look-and-feel, I
was looking forward to this innovation!

The alternative is Hanzi Bar, you can read any Chinese web-page in your Firefox, and you can do it
off-line, too.

Hanzi Bar:
http://realimaginary.com/
It's a bit tricky, you also need to install dictionaries (separate download)

Let's see what peraperakun does!












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Chinese School - Newcomers to BLCU (and other univ..) - Let's have a coffee or something. - Page 3 -

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xus-swede -

Allright, count me in.



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doumeizhen -

Beer!

I mean, yes, count me in too, please!










Tutor -

@ billiardsmike: if there is no "good" coffee (well, I think "good" depends on what you are used
to, even a decent coffee is fine for me) to be found beer is also a good choice ;)

@ all: I think I'll try one of the places around cava coffee - you are welcome if you want to join
me!










Tutor -

1st experience: I wanted to go to Cava Coffee today but a bit further down the road I spotted an
"Illy" sign )) - one of the best mass roasted coffees in my opinion - the coffee was good and the
atmosphere also appealing --> all in all a really good choice!










Qcash3 -



Quote:

one of the best mass roasted coffees in my opinion

Do they serve beer or tea? I'm strictly a tea person when it comes to hot caffeinated drinks .










aimei -

Count me in! Me and my bf just arrived and are here till december. I am in Hai Dian now, there is
a Starbucks (I know I know ) near me at the shopping center by the Carrefour here. I haven't
really seen any other coffee places around here (I assume most of us are in Hai Dian as well....)










Qcash3 -

I read in a guide book somewhere about Starbucks "conquering Beijing like the Mongolian hordes did
centuries ago"










teachinator -

when we took a short trip to Beijing. I know it's very parochial of me, but it was a relief to
find a place where I pretty much knew what I would get. We got totally ripped off at one of those
"coffee places" at the Great Wall (nasty, vastly overpriced drinks in a buy-more-ripoff-stuff
atmosphere), and when I realized there was a Starbucks about a mile outside the entrance, I wished
we had gone there instead.










billiardsmike -

Don't get me wrong, Starbucks is great, just a little expensive, even when I was used to US
prices. I've since seen a few more options, so I'll start taste-testing my way around town.










Qcash3 -



Quote:

Don't get me wrong, Starbucks is great, just a little expensive, even when I was used to US
prices. I've since seen a few more options, so I'll start taste-testing my way around town.

You can't put a price on the love and dedication that goes into a chai latte. At least that's what
Starbucks would have us believe....












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Free Chinese Lesson - 明清政府不但奖励守节的女人 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
明清政府不但奖励守节的女人
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kudra -

Here is the 5th paragraph from the text from Chapter 45, Huang and Stimpson, Written Standard
Chinese vol 4. The title of the essay is 中国妇女的解放。
女人的丈夫死了再去嫁人， 在汉朝的时候社会上是许可的。到了唐朝，
妇女仍然有再嫁的自由。唐朝一代公主再嫁的就有二十三个之多。
只是到了宋朝，
风气渐渐改变。社会上的领导人物主张妇女守节。后来明清政府不但奖励守�
��的女人， 而且女人家里的人也可以从政府里得到好处；
于是这种可怕的观念就一直深入到农村里去。
Here is my translation:
After a woman’s husband died, during the Han Dynasty, she was allowed to remarry. At the time of
the Tang Dynasty, women still had the freedom to remarry. The Tang Dynasty had over 23 princesses
who remarried. Only with the Song Dynast did customs (ethos according to adsotrans) change little
by little.
The leaders of society advocated being faithful (to a deceased husband) [守节]。 Afterwards,
the Ming government not only encouraged women who continued fidelity (to a deceased husband), but
also the woman’s family could gain benefits from the government; (thereupon)(this led to) this
frightful concept entered directly and deeply into (rural) village (customs).The book has the
definition of 守节, as "be faithful (to a deceased husband)".
I am curious how this worked. Huang and Stimson seem to use strong language calling this a
frightful custom. One view is that the govt supplied life insurance upon the death of the husband.
Is their condemnation based on the point that the widow did not actually get control of that
money, and instead the woman's family did? So the family had some kind of economic incentive to
not have the widow remarry?

And the comment about entering into rural village customs: is the point that even if it was common
among the upper classes, not until it began to pervade village customs can it be said to truely be
part of Chinese culture?

Thanks for any clarification.

I am not through with the essay, so this might (or might not) clearer when I finish it.



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studentyoung -



Quote:

One view is that the govt supplied life insurance upon the death of the husband. Is their
condemnation based on the point that the widow did not actually get control of that money, and
instead the woman's family did? So the family had some kind of economic incentive to not have the
widow remarry?

I don't think governments from Song to Qing Dynasty could supply life insurance upon the death of
the husband. I haven’t seen any historical books even mentioned anything in this field.
Especially Song, Ming, and Qing Dynasty were suffered from 1.excessive governmental officials,
2.civil wars or foreign invasion (sometimes both), 3.corruption, 4.natural disasters. Sometimes
even those who lost their sons or husbands as solders in wars could not get any compensation, so
how could the governments offer life insurance to widows, especially those men died naturally or
those in poor area? I haven’t heard that widow or widow’s families could get money from
government in those days.



Quote:

So the family had some kind of economic incentive to not have the widow remarry?

I think the incentive for the family to not have the widow remarry was the family thought
remarrying was not the right thing for a faithful wife to do, which was also a well-known social
common sense. If their daughter dared to remarry, that meant their daughter wasn’t a faithful
woman as the society expected her to be and both the woman and her family deserved being despised
by the whole society.



Quote:

And the comment about entering into rural village customs: is the point that even if it was common
among the upper classes, not until it began to pervade village customs can it be said to truely be
part of Chinese culture?

In my opinion, this custom was also common among the upper classes and it should be counted as a
part of Chinese culture.

Thanks!










HashiriKata -



Quote:

Huang and Stimson seem to use strong language calling this a frightful custom. One view is that
the govt supplied life insurance upon the death of the husband. Is their condemnation based on the
point that the widow did not actually get control of that money, and instead the woman's family
did? So the family had some kind of economic incentive to not have the widow remarry?

I don't think so, as the above interpretation is fighteningly materialistic . "守节" is
considered to be a frightful practice by the authors because it condemns the widows to a lonely
life, and forces them to be "faithful" to their deceased husbands for the rest of their life
regardless of any love, feelings they may have (Just imagine the widows are still in their
twenties!!), .

I also think that the "好处" in the text refers largely to non-materialistic/ intangible
benefits.










夜雨叮咚6 -

In the old days,贞操's concept is:a women, during all her life,is only allowed to have sex with
her husband or be single and never have sex. if she remarry,have been raped or have sex with
others,she would be regarded as "失贞" .
During those days, sociaty advocated women to be faithfull. Moreover, if women didn't conform to
this,it was regarded as great shame by the sociaty. she would be punished,ranging from expelling
her from her family to killing her .the killing ways were very cruel, too.(tie the women's hands
and feet,put into a cage and throw into the river; burn her to die alive and killed her). As a
saying goes :"饿死事小，失节事大". so you can imagine the cruelty! On the contrary, if a
women conform to this, being lonely all her life after her husband die, her family will rise to
fame, and she will be respected by the sociaty.
one true example: In qin dynasty, a women in a rich family，named 康烈女， be betrothed to a
poor man. Before she truely married him, the man died. but she firmly regarded herself th be his
wife and committed suicide. The man's father was a bad guy and every one looked down upon him,
after ths ,he was greatly respected . It's not a love story. women in that days act only as a
sacrificial lamb.
Because their thoughts were poisoned , most widows volunteered to be faithfull .she herself also
regarded it as virtue.
numerous grammatical mistakes! I'm from non-english speaking country.
If you have a good command of chinese,you can get access to thishttp://zhidao.baidu.com/
and enter any question about china culture, someone will answer you












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Chinese Mandarin - Translation needed -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Translation needed
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Snazzyviper -

Hi all, I wonder if anyone could help me!?

I have seen the following on a website and thought it would look good as a tattoo on my lower
underside forearm! The site I saw it on did say what it means, but I wanted to make sure it's
correct as I can't rub it out if I have it done and it turns out to mean something else!!!

Anyway, here is what I would like translated please-



I changed two of the characters to red as I thought it would look better!

Thanks for any help you can give.



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skylee -

No use crying over spilt milk.










in_lab -

literal translation (from Dr. Eye): Spilt water can't be gathered up










Snazzyviper -

Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply

This was on the site where I saw the saying/characters-


Quote:

No use crying over spilled milk, meaning what's done is done and cannot be undone!

So it looks like the translation is correct

The reason why I liked it, is because years ago my mum and dad had just bought a new carpet and I
dropped a drink on it I was shi**ing myself because I thought that I was going to get told off,
but instead my mum just turned around and said "Don't worry about it, what's done is done" and
that has always stayed with me! (don't ask me why!)

I also thought that it was such an appropriate sentiment for a tattoo, "what's done is done and
cannot be undone"

But as you look at it, it reads No use crying over spilled milk what if people (who can understand
it) don't understand the what's done is done meaning!!!!

Hmmmmm, so do you think that it would look/read ok or not?

Any thoughts appreciated?










Strawberries513 -

yeah but the font looks odd to me though. but go ahead.










preyer -

It does have the meaning you mentioned ,but as a tattoo it may implies kind of regret about
something,










Snazzyviper -

Sorry but i forgot to ask, i saw the letters in black, by changing two of them to red, does that
alter any of the meaning at all?

Thanks










imron -

No the meaning doesn't change










skylee -

The phrase has a negative connotation. It does not really imply that you should relax because you
cannot undo what is done. It implies that something bad/regrettable has happened and there is
nothing you can do to change/rectify it.

If you tattoo it on your body, and later you find that you don't like it anymore or that it does
not really mean what you thought it did and you regret it, then that is exactly what the phrase
means.










HashiriKata -



Quote:

If you tattoo it on your body, and later you find that you don't like it anymore or that it does
not really mean what you thought it did and you regret it, then that is exactly what the phrase
means.

This kind of (small) tatoos can be taken off quite cleanly nowadays, actually.












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Chinese Mandarin - ...and now to something completely different.... -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
...and now to something completely different....
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flameproof -

An English lesson for our Japanese friends....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-QNWpJaiY0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5qoMfBJUeI



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Language Guy -

Wow, this is great!

Thanks for the post.










Gestalt -

That's going to be going through my head all day now! "Spare Me My life!".."Spare Me My
Life.."..catchy..










flameproof -

The first tought is of course and absolutely rightly so, silly.

But I have to admit that it's extremely catchy and may even work. I can't stop thinking "is the
taxi on its way......."










芳芳 -

"let me off at the neckessete corner"

"take anything you want" "take anything you want" "take anything you want" "take anything you
want".....is that really something to say ? Could be dansgerously interpreted...(especially if in
the situation the girl says it in dancing like in the video )












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Chinese Studies - japanese verbs/particles -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
japanese verbs/particles
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tanhql -

1) is there a website with a list of all the verbs and all the conjugation listed?

2) what is the simplest way of remembering if a verb is in group 1 or group 2, including
exceptions, other than refering to the list?

3) under what circumstances can に replace で,へ,を etc? (especially に and を, direct(を)
and indirect(に) objects is very confusing for me)



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novemberfog -

1) Not sure, and if there was I doubt it would be inclusive of all verbs. I do know that there the
"500 Verbs" series has an edition for Japanese.

2) If the verb ends in 〜る, then you know it is class 2. If it is not する or 来る then it
cannot be class 3, thus the verb would be class 1. Exceptions will be exceptions and you just have
to memorize them as you come across them.

3) The particle に is very hard to figure out. You just have to keep reading example sentences
until you come to an understanding. Every time someone tries to make a simple definition, one
could find exceptions.










nipponman -

[quote]3) under what circumstances can に replace で,へ,を etc? (especially に and を,
direct(を) and indirect(に) objects is very confusing for me)[quote]

に and を

This is actually an easier issue than most students make it especially when talking about に and
を (Unless you're refering to their locational attributes which is different). に is an indirect
object marker, and ,を is the direct object marker. "I threw the ball to Jim"
ジムに玉を投げた.

に and へ
There is not much difference here, I don't know of any at least, they are interchangeable.

に and で
This is also a simpler issue than most make it to be. に always refers to static contexts, while
で refers to dynamic ones. 公園で遊ぶ vs. 公園に住む "To play in a park" (dynamic,
changing action) vs "To live in a park" (static, non-changing action). Be careful with this
explanation however, it doesn't extend very far. V-でいる, in one of its three uses., can be a
more static context than V+う／る, however, even though this is still the case, で is used.
子供が公園で遊んでる。に here would be incorrect. It is instructive to note that all
particle-noun phrases (e.g. 子供が,公園で ,etc) can be eliminated from conversation
(provided context is provided) except the indirect object marker に, this cannot be eliminated.










tanhql -

"If the verb ends in 〜る, then you know it is class 2. If it is not する or 来る then it
cannot be class 3, thus the verb would be class 1. Exceptions will be exceptions and you just have
to memorize them as you come across them."

not necessary. 入る,始まる,座る etc have a 〜る, but they are all in group 1.










novemberfog -

tanhql:



Quote:

If the verb ends in 〜る, then you know it is class 2. If it is not する or 来る then it
cannot be class 3, thus the verb would be class 1. Exceptions will be exceptions and you just have
to memorize them as you come across them."

not necessary. 入る,始まる,座る etc have a 〜る, but they are all in group 1.

Naturally there are exceptions, and there is nothing you can do about it but remember the verbs
that are exceptions. The only rule regarding class 2 verbs is that ~る endings designate class
two verbs.










yingguoguy -



Quote:

2) what is the simplest way of remembering if a verb is in group 1 or group 2, including
exceptions, other than refering to the list?

I find it helps to always try and learn the dictionary る form, the た/て form, and the ます
form of a verb together and try and memorize a few sentances with all the various forms. Once you
have those, most other conjegations become obvious. If I don't know the た/て form seperately I
find it hard to hear them properly in speech.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to call group 1 -iru/-eru verbs exceptions. I don't know what the
ratio of these to group 2 verbs is, but I don't think you should make any assumptions about what a
verb is, you just need to know it's group.










nipponman -



Quote:

Naturally there are exceptions, and there is nothing you can do about it but remember the verbs
that are exceptions. The only rule regarding class 2 verbs is that ~る endings designate class
two verbs.

Another thing to remember, る endings only designate class two verbs if they come after いorえ.
It cannot be a class two verb otherwise. Now, there can be class one verbs that come after い or
え　e.g帰る is 帰った but 変える is 変えた. You must memorize the cases where group
one verbs have a る that comes after い or え, you cannot memorize any other exceptions as
there is none. Remember, you can only have a group-II verb if the る ending follows an い or
え, otherwise it is group-I.　入る,始まる,座る except the first verb, all these verbs do
not follow an いorえ (the second one follows a ま the third a わ) so automatically I know that
they are group-I



Quote:


Originally Posted by yingguoguy

I think it's a bit of a stretch to call group 1 -iru/-eru verbs exceptions. I don't know what the
ratio of these to group 2 verbs is, but I don't think you should make any assumptions about what a
verb is, you just need to know it's group.


Its not a stretch, that's the rule. There are no group-II verbs that come after any other vowel
sound other than い or え, none. So, by default, all group-I verbs that follow い or えand end
in る must be exceptions.



　










yingguoguy -



Quote:

Its not a stretch, that's the rule.

The rules I was taught:

1) Any group 1 verb ends with -u,-ku,-gu,-su,-tsu,-nu,-mu,-bu, and -ru.
2) Any group 2 verb ends with -iru, -eru
3) The group 3 verbs are kuru and suru and have irregular conjugations.

-ru verbs with a preceeding i or e are not exceptional in the sense that they don't break any of
the above rules. Given any verb ending in -iru or -eru it is impossible to infer from the rules
wether it is in group 1 or group 2.

The only verb generally considered to be exceptional is iku, as it's past form is itta, not iita
as you would expect from the rules given for group 1 verbs.



Quote:

There are no group-II verbs that come after any other vowel sound other than い or え, none. So,
by default, all group-I verbs that follow い or えand end in る must be exceptions.

This is a logical fallacy. Contrast with:

There are no Japanese people with anything other than natually black hair, none.
(okay maybe a dubious statement, but play along for the moment )
So, by default, all Americans with black hair must be exceptions.










nipponman -



Quote:


Originally Posted by yingguoguy

The only verb generally considered to be exceptional is iku, as it's past form is itta, not iita
as you would expect from the rules given for group 1 verbs.


This is not true, だ is considered the most exceptional verb, as it doesn't end with a う
sound.



Quote:


Originally Posted by yingguoguy

This is a logical fallacy.


You're missing the point. I'm not calling group-I verbs that end in -る and follow an い or anえ
exceptions because they violate group-I rules, I call them exceptions to the rule that group-II
verbs only end in that way. Hopefully you agree that you can never find a group-II verb that
doesn't end in -いる or -える, that sounds like a rule to me.but so that people don't go and
take every verb that ends in いる or -える to be group-II, we present exceptions to this rule.
Your arguing from the point that these aren't exceptions to the group-I rules, and your right.
Only problem is, nobody is talking about that (that didn't ask the question at least). These are
exceptions to the group-II rules.










yingguoguy -



Quote:

This is not true, だ is considered the most exceptional verb, as it doesn't end with a うsound.

But da isn't generally considered to be a verb but the copula. It shows the tense and politeness
level of sentences when these are not indicated by the verb or (for tense only) the i-adjective.
Although it's usually translated into English at 'to be', it's not actually a verb and the English
rule that all sentences must have a verb isn't true in Japanese.



Quote:

Hopefully you agree that you can never find a group-II verb that doesn't end in -いる or
-える, that sounds like a rule to me.

Agreed, see my rule 2 above.



Quote:

but so that people don't go and take every verb that ends in いる or -える to be group-II, we
present exceptions to this rule.

Your right that learners definately need their attention drawn to the fact that not everything
that ends in -i/eru is a group 2 verb, and a text should provide examples of group 1 -i/eru
endings to drive this point home. I also accept, which I missed originally, that tanhql refered to
exceptions to the rules in his first post, and people were just following his usage.

My point was that it's bad practice to think of group 1 -i/eru verbs as being exceptional in the
sense of assuming that any -i/eru verb is in group 2 unless it appears on a list of a exceptions
that you've specially memorized, as it'll probably end up being quite a long list, and whenever
you hit a verb, you'll waste time trying to remember if it's on the list or not.

It's also, I think, a bad idea to memorize in the form (帰る is group 1),(食べる is group 2)
but rather (帰る、帰った,帰ります),(食べる,食べた,食べます), partly for the
same reasons it's bad to try and remember Chinese tones by their numbers, but mainly because it
speeds up most conjugating most forms. You shouldn't have to think about groups in conversation.












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Chinese Mandarin - New Cantonese Input Method Software - Page 2 -

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RedMoon -

Have you thought about porting it to a "native" windows application? That way you could install a
system-wide keyboard hook which means it would be compatible with all windows programs. In other
words, keystrokes are first sent to your application, you do all your processing there, then send
the modified result (the Cantonese character) to the target window.

I've tried your tool out, and it's quite good (even though I know next-to-nothing). Great job -
keep it up!



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xiaojiang216 -

I used this software frequently not too long ago. But now that I have started using it again, I
cannot get certain characters to display. (For example: o的 appears as a big box, as well as
o係, etc.)

Is there something that I'm being stupid about?










uccoffee -

who to type these words?
去
衫
村

the code site is down at the moment










wannabeafreak -

The best Cantonese IME is http://www.cantonese.org.cn/Soft/200...513104337.html

Traditional, Jyutping, and has all the special Canto Characters. However, need to set your locale
to PRC.












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Showing results 1 to 7 of 7
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: roddy

Forum: Reading and Writing 1st September 2003, 10:43 AM

Replies: 44

Characters vs phonetic writing systems

Views: 6,491

Posted By roddy


I see your point, and sometimes it can be a...

I see your point, and sometimes it can be a little confusing.

However, it's a lot more confusing to have a thread with the title 'Characters and Phonetic
Writing systems' which discusses character...



Forum: Reading and Writing 31st August 2003, 10:44 AM

Replies: 44

Characters vs phonetic writing systems

Views: 6,491

Posted By roddy


I've moved the recent posts on Chinese Character...

I've moved the recent posts on Chinese Character Input Methods to a new topic in the Textbooks and
Resources forum, shortly to be renamed the Textbooks, Resources and Computing forum....



Forum: Reading and Writing 29th July 2003, 03:09 PM

Replies: 44

Characters vs phonetic writing systems

Views: 6,491

Posted By roddy


Like I said, you might occassionally have...

Like I said, you might occassionally have problems with words in isolation - like when a madman
comes up to you on the street and says 'hey, d'you know what a blenny is?'

Roddy



Forum: Reading and Writing 29th July 2003, 01:41 PM

Replies: 44

Characters vs phonetic writing systems

Views: 6,491

Posted By roddy


And . . .(forgot this) I've been told that it's...

And . . .(forgot this)

I've been told that it's impossible to create an adequate phonetic system for Chinese, as there
are so few phonemes you have too many homonyns.

Sounds like rubbish to me. A...



Forum: Reading and Writing 29th July 2003, 01:30 PM

Replies: 44

Characters vs phonetic writing systems

Views: 6,491

Posted By roddy


Yeah, I agree that once you've learnt the...

Yeah, I agree that once you've learnt the characters Chinese isn't so difficult - and like the
ugly example, Chinese vocabulary can be beautifully logical.

It's learning the characters in the first...



Forum: Reading and Writing 29th July 2003, 12:10 PM

Replies: 44

Characters vs phonetic writing systems

Views: 6,491

Posted By roddy


This means readers of phonetic scripts don't...

This means readers of phonetic scripts don't immediately get the meaning in their head, which is
simply not true - I can't believe reading � is any more immediate than reading fish.

I'd also like...



Forum: Reading and Writing 29th July 2003, 10:34 AM

Replies: 44

Characters vs phonetic writing systems

Views: 6,491

Posted By roddy


Thanks for starting the thread wix, I hadn't had...

Thanks for starting the thread wix, I hadn't had time to do it myself last night.


Sorry, but they don't. Nobody who hadn't studied Chinese (or any other simliar language could look
at � and think...



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Showing results 1 to 6 of 6
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: 82riceballs

Forum: Reading and Writing 9th December 2007, 11:03 PM

Replies: 14

本是同根生，相煎何太急

Views: 1,001

Posted By 82riceballs


Re: 本是同根生，相煎何太急

YEAH!! THANKS GUYS!!!



Forum: Reading and Writing 28th November 2007, 04:03 AM

Replies: 14

本是同根生，相煎何太急

Views: 1,001

Posted By 82riceballs


Re: 本是同根生，相煎何太急

is the stuff at the bottom the "豆萁“? the bean stalks?

So, Cao Zhi = beans cooking in pot
and Cao Pi = bean stalks fueling the fire?

Thanks for the picture. It really helps me visualize.



Forum: Reading and Writing 27th November 2007, 08:44 AM

Replies: 14

本是同根生，相煎何太急

Views: 1,001

Posted By 82riceballs


Re: 本是同根生，相煎何太急

What does "burning the stem" have to do with "cooking the bean"? Does burning the stem provide the
fire for cooking the bean? Are there any pictures that might help me visualize this?

thanks



Forum: Reading and Writing 24th November 2007, 09:23 AM

Replies: 14

本是同根生，相煎何太急

Views: 1,001

Posted By 82riceballs


Re: 本是同根生，相煎何太急

thanks!



Forum: Reading and Writing 24th November 2007, 08:30 AM

Replies: 14

本是同根生，相煎何太急

Views: 1,001

Posted By 82riceballs


Re: 本是同根生，相煎何太急

sorry, could you please explain: "横溢"? I can't find it in any dictionaries.

Also, is "直" the 量詞 of "心"? ("一直心怀忌恨")

Thanks for the excellent explanation!

and Thanks skylee!



Forum: Reading and Writing 24th November 2007, 04:23 AM

Replies: 14

本是同根生，相煎何太急

Views: 1,001

Posted By 82riceballs


本是同根生，相煎何太急

Can someone kindly translate 本是同根生，相煎何太急 into English? Can you explain it
using Chinese? Thanks much!



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: djwebb2004

Forum: Reading and Writing 16th June 2007, 09:24 PM

Replies: 62

How many characters is enough?

Views: 5,411

Posted By djwebb2004


Re: How many characters is enough?

The answer is that with 3000 characters you cannot understand everything you see. The government
has a list of 3500 frequently used characters and a larger list of 7000 commonly used characters.
The...



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Showing results 1 to 2 of 2
Search took 0.03 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: missyou

Forum: Reading and Writing 19th February 2008, 10:10 AM

Replies: 69

Language of Xian

Views: 2,116

Posted By missyou


Re: Language of Xian

Glad to help you.
If your firend locateed in China mainland not Hongkong or Taiwan,I recommend you to use simp.
In fact,most people in mainland today only can use simp,especially to the...



Forum: Reading and Writing 18th February 2008, 05:27 PM

Replies: 69

Language of Xian

Views: 2,116

Posted By missyou


Re: Language of Xian

Chinese is not so easy to learn as English.
Chinese order and logic are both very different from that of English.The fist thing you can do,I
think,if you can't live in a Chinese environment,is to...



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Showing results 1 to 1 of 1
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: geek_frappa

Forum: Reading and Writing 19th December 2007, 11:37 AM

Replies: 77

I Hate Hanzi

Views: 8,444

Posted By geek_frappa


Re: I Hate Hanzi

learning Hanzi also frustrated at time, but this gave me insight into English. Imagine how an
English language learner feels.

dough ... that's d-oh
cough ... that's c-off
tough ... no, that's...



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Showing results 1 to 5 of 5
Search took 0.91 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: nipponman

Forum: Reading and Writing 31st October 2005, 10:04 PM

Replies: 79

Traditional & Simplified Characters

Views: 13,879

Posted By nipponman


Personally, I don't think that simplified...

Personally, I don't think that simplified characters are easier to read on newspapers. It is just
the font type that matters, not the size.



Forum: Reading and Writing 28th August 2005, 08:23 AM

Replies: 79

Traditional & Simplified Characters

Views: 13,879

Posted By nipponman


I like/agree with this part the most, good post...

I like/agree with this part the most, good post Jose.



Forum: Reading and Writing 25th August 2005, 07:19 PM

Replies: 79

Traditional & Simplified Characters

Views: 13,879

Posted By nipponman


Basically, SC are way too simple. You might as...

Basically, SC are way too simple. You might as well switch to pinyin if your gonna butcher the
characters like that. After I learned TC even in Japanese I don't use simplified. I always use
學,靜 etc....



Forum: Reading and Writing 24th August 2005, 10:33 PM

Replies: 79

Traditional & Simplified Characters

Views: 13,879

Posted By nipponman


Has literacy increased dramatically since the...

Has literacy increased dramatically since the introduction of simplified characters? If not, than
I think it is obvious that simplified characters should be abolished completely. It's just like
the...



Forum: Reading and Writing 24th August 2005, 06:54 PM

Replies: 79

Traditional & Simplified Characters

Views: 13,879

Posted By nipponman


:clap , I agree completely Jose. Simplification ...

:clap , I agree completely Jose. Simplification has done nothing but destroy the beauty that is
hanzi. Furthermore, I'm not sure that it has fulfilled its original purpose, to increase
literacy...



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Showing results 1 to 1 of 1
Search took 0.07 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: ggonline

Forum: Reading and Writing 4th August 2005, 03:41 AM

Replies: 131

Chinese in purely phonetic script

Views: 10,715

Posted By ggonline


完全同意。 汉字拼音化是一种很愚蠢的想法。
之所以字母类语言会流行，比如英语， 之所以有人会觉得...

完全同意。

汉字拼音化是一种很愚蠢的想法。

之所以字母类语言会流行，比如英语，
之所以有人会觉得英语类的语言比较好，比较容易学，
不是因为英语之类的语言有多好，而是代表了一种以英美为代表的强势文化�
��世界范围的流行。



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Showing results 1 to 11 of 11
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Taibei

Forum: Reading and Writing 26th May 2004, 09:40 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By Taibei


I find myself in rare disagreement with ala on...

I find myself in rare disagreement with ala on this -- though perhaps it is just in his/her choice
of wording rather than intended meaning. Chinese characters no more "transcend sound" than...



Forum: Reading and Writing 26th May 2004, 09:34 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By Taibei


Again, let's not set up straw men. This isn't...

Again, let's not set up straw men. This isn't about having Pinyin be the writing system instead of
Hanzi.


I don't understand. Do you think that Mandarin speakers "compromise" when they have...



Forum: Reading and Writing 22nd May 2004, 01:13 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By Taibei


That's not how I meant it at all. I apologize if...

That's not how I meant it at all. I apologize if I gave the wrong impression.

Not everyone who buys, say, an extremely expensive but well-marketed brand of perfume is a snob --
far from it. But the...



Forum: Reading and Writing 22nd May 2004, 12:47 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By Taibei


I have an excellent article on the Dungans on my...

I have an excellent article on the Dungans on my site: Implications of the Soviet Dungan Script
for Chinese Language Reform (http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/dungan.html), by Victor Mair.
This...



Forum: Reading and Writing 19th May 2004, 11:28 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By Taibei


I said it before, and I'll say it again: Occam's...

I said it before, and I'll say it again: Occam's razor. The burden of proof is on those who would
say, despite absence of real evidence, that Chinese characters are superior to alphabetic
systems...



Forum: Reading and Writing 19th May 2004, 11:00 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By Taibei


:roll: It's not necessary to read any minds....

:roll: It's not necessary to read any minds. Plenty of people have made the same observation.
There is absolutely nothing unusual or even really controversial in my statement. Or is it that
you just...



Forum: Reading and Writing 19th May 2004, 10:45 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By Taibei


This is incorrect. For the real story, read...

This is incorrect.

For the real story, read Literacy and Script Reform in Occupation Japan: Reading Between the Lines
(http://pinyin.info/readings/japanese_literacy.html), by J. Marshall Unger....



Forum: Reading and Writing 18th May 2004, 11:59 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By Taibei


There's really too much here for me to respond to...

There's really too much here for me to respond to adequately. Actually, most of the points I would
make have already been made by dmoser, ala, and others in this thread. It's just that they don't...



Forum: Reading and Writing 14th May 2004, 05:13 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By Taibei


This is often asserted -- without any proof....

This is often asserted -- without any proof. Moreover, if we're talking about time here, how much
more time does it take to become literate in Chinese characters than in pinyin? In this, we're...



Forum: Reading and Writing 12th May 2004, 06:36 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By Taibei


Or just use pinyin and skip the characters....

Or just use pinyin and skip the characters.

It's worth noting that most people already write Mandarin in pinyin -- they're just using this as
an intermediate step in having a computer translate...



Forum: Reading and Writing 5th May 2004, 03:02 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By Taibei


A lot of people tend to get confused about the...

A lot of people tend to get confused about the nature of the question, thinking that the
troublesome spellings of English somehow equate to what it's like to write Mandarin in
romanization. (These...



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Showing results 1 to 1 of 1
Search took 0.04 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: semantic nuance

Forum: Reading and Writing 1st March 2006, 09:39 PM

Replies: 12

Can someone please check my translations?

Views: 1,738

Posted By semantic nuance


4. 每位駕駛都得遵守交通规则，要不然路上的汽车都会动彈不得。 8.
每个人都想趕快上公車,...

4.
每位駕駛都得遵守交通规则，要不然路上的汽车都会动彈不得。

8.

每个人都想趕快上公車, 但是誰也不肯讓誰。结果，没有人能上车,
車子也動不了.

9.

馬克跟瑪麗道歉,因为他已經待在上海两个多星期了才给她写信。



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Showing results 1 to 1 of 1
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Long Zhiren

Forum: Reading and Writing 23rd August 2005, 05:45 AM

Replies: 5

The best TECHNIQUE for learning characters ?

Views: 1,263

Posted By Long Zhiren


After learning the first couple thousand, the...

After learning the first couple thousand, the next couple thousand characters aren't so commonly
used. My present favorite learning technique is to surf the web.
like: http://cn.yahoo.com/ where I...



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